tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 22, 2012 1:00am-2:00am PST
yep, that was the moment one of my cameramen almost had his hand bitten up by a snow leopard. here at 9:00 p.m. eastern. happy thanksgiving everyone. hour. jack hanna and friends are here friday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern. happy thanksgiving, everyone. a new day here, we're entering day nine of the israel hamas conflict. there is, of course, a cease-fire in effect. when word spread, this was the reaction in gaza city. people took to the streets, massive traffic and crowds as people celebrated. gazans celebrated what they saw as a victory for hamas and gaza. question is, will all of this
hold? will all of these people once again take cover in their homes? will the celebrations end and the fear return? for u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton and mohammed morsi who pushed for a cease fire, the agreement calls for discussion of a number of issues, including freedom of movement for palestinians in and out of gaza. and the agreement not to target the area in gaza, and to halt rocket fire into israel. again, a discussion, nothing is a done deal. over the next hour we'll look at the negotiations still happening now. we'll also hear from the spokeswoman for the israeli defense forces and from the leader of hamas. plus our reporters on the ground and a whole lot more. we begin with a look at what has transpired over just the last 24 hours. it is remarkable there was a cease-fire this hour, when you consider how this wednesday started off. take a look. add midday, no sign of a truce yet when a city bus is bombed in tel-aviv. at least two dozen were wounded.
israeli police say terrorists left two bombs on the bus and fled. only one exploded. hamas praised the attack near the headquarters of the israeli defense forces but the group didn't claim responsibility. farther south in israeli a home was hit by a rocket, room after room left in ruins. according to the military, more than 60 rockets were fired from gaza today, with more than 40 landed in israel. the others were intercepted. across the border in gaza, several large explosions throughout the morning and afternoon. 100 strikes confirmed by the israelis today before the cease-fire. the sky covered in smoke, the city on edge. on some streets buildings were turned to rubble. cnn's arwa damon got a look at what's left behind. >> reporter: there used to be a small, fairly known shop here.
selling wedding dresses. there's a bouquet lying there amidst the rubble. it appears in this case, the target of the strike was the police station behind it. >> but these evening local team after intense hours of negotiations u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton and egyptian president mohamed morsi announced a cease fire. >> the united states welcomes the cease-fire in gaza. for it to hold, the rockets must end for it to create a broader calm. >> israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu talks with reporters. >> translator: i know there are nose who expect an even more intense military response, and that may, perhaps, be needed. but at this time the right thing for the state of israel is to exhaust this opportunity to obtain a long-term cease-fire. >> throughout gaza, celebration and gunfire rings out. the leader of hamas remains defiant. >> translator: israel, in all
its goals, have failed, thanks to god. >> and on the streets of gaza city massive crowds and traffic. the tension seemingly gone as people celebrate the cease-fire and leave their homes for the first time in days. >> i haven't seen this many people in the streets of gaza for quite some time. you can hear the mosques bla blaring, horning honking, people whistling, cheering. >> over to gaza city. ben wedeman is there along with cnn's arwa damon reporting. ben, i assume it's quieted down. it's now just a little past 3:00 a.m. there. let's move this story forward. what happens now? >> reporter: well, really, the next sort of 24 hours is critical. we can still hear the drones overhead. the israeli troops are still on the borders of gaza. if the cease-fire holds, if there are not major violations and the israeli military has
expressed the realization that there may be some violations, but if nothing major occurs, then they will be able to start actually talking about some of the details that were laid out in the agreement that was worked out between hamas and israel with the help of the egyptians. things like opening the crossings,'s of travel restrictions. certainly hamas is going to welcome the fact that they will no longer be moving targets whenever they step outside their houses here in gaza. so it's really, if we can get through a period of relative quiet and peace, then they can start working on something a little more permanent than just 24 hours of relative quiet. anderson? >> and, arwa, i can hear in the skies behind you, i can hear those drones still overhead. a sound we've heard a lot over the last eight or nine days. you've spoken with a lot of people today there, a lot of
people this evening. how do they see it? >> reporter: well, there's, of course, a sense of relief, understandably. even if the cease-fire does not hold. that for the time being there are able to get out. we were down in the streets amongst them. many of them celebrating. they were saying what they were calling hamas's victory. a victory for the palestinians. others, though, saying they were simply out celebrating because they could. because they'd spent so many days cooped up. there were entire vehicles with children packed inside them. one father saying his kids had begged, begged him to take them out because they'd spent so much time indoors. just an overwhelming sense of relief that at least for one night, for now, people can get some sleep and be at ease with the knowledge that at least for now, there's not going to be that unexpected strike near their home. >> ben, you and i have talked about this a lot over the last couple nights, about the level
of support hamas has among people in gaza. talk about that a little bit, and the decision made tonight, the cease-fire. how does that bolster hamas? >> reporter: well, it bolsters hamas in the sense that they were able to, "a," confront israel. to really provide a military challenge to israel and emerge from it without leaving large swaths of gaza in rubble. what we saw four years ago, they had another confrontation with israel. israel sent in the ground troops. it was a 22-day bruising war with 1,400 people killed. after that, there was a good deal of resentment against hamas for sort of getting gaza into that sort of mess. this time around, the mess has been avoided in relative terms compared to the last four years. and hamas can say as a result of this war, we have something to show. an easing of the crossings.
and end to israeli military operations and airstrikes within gaza. these targeted air strikes. i'm not talking about the campaign of bombing over the last eight days. so they do have something to show for the suffering that has happened here. and that is something that will bolster their position. is hamas popular? not necessarily. there are a lot of people who benefit from it. but many palestinians here in gaza really do feel that hamas is really by no means a democratic regime. and it's a regime that really doesn't have much tolerance for any sort of dissent. anderson? >> we certainly -- we've certainly seen that. arwa damon, ben wedeman, stay with us. i want to bring in abita leibovitz. i'm curious to know your thoughts on this cease fire. obviously the devil's in the details and you want to see what's going to happen over the next 24 hours. for now the israeli troops
amassed on the border, are they staying there? >> they're staying there only for the night. tomorrow we'll have an operational assessment. then we'll decide what to do with these soldiers. maybe some will sent home. just to see if the situation stabilizes. >> if it does stabilize for 24 hours do you know and can you comment on whether the drones will continue to fly? >> drones is a totally different issue. it has something to do with intelligence. we won't attack gaza since we are respecting the cease-fire. however, if a launcher with the launching squad will attempt to target us we will have to target the launching squad. >> there have been some rockets fired toward israel. how many since the cease-fire went into effect. >> since 9:00 this evening israeli time, five rockets have been fired. two of them were intercepted by one of our iron dome batteries. three have landed in israel. >> and how do you view them? >> we try to take it in
proportion and see this is the beginning of the cease-fire. that's why we haven't responded. the coming weeks will determine where exactly are we heading. >> even though there have been five rockets fired beyond the iron dome response you haven't responded to try to take out where those rockets were fired from. >> right. we are practicing our restraint. >> in terms of hamas, what does this mean for israel's relationship with hamas? >> well, first of all, hamas suffered very harsh blow in this operation. we targeted quite a large part of its arsenal. especially the fadra five, manufactured missiles, rockets that reached all the way the tel-aviv area and jerusalem area. i believe that hamas was very much surprised with our intelligence capability since many of these launchers were hidden underground or in civilian places like the soccer stadium that we targeted one of the nights. media buildings had some terrorists in them and so on. so the combination of the surprise effect, the good
intelligence and the very accurate targets, i think, caused quite a big shock to hamas. >> obviously israel in the past has dealt with the palestinian authority and israel does not recognize hamas, hamas does not recognize israel's right to exist. can you foresee a day where that changes where israel sits down with hamas or even recognizes hamas. >> this is really political echelon. i don't see a near time of -- you know, a day that will be in the near future for this kind of reconciliation. >> there are clearly a number of israelis who wanted more of an operation. prime minister netanyahu spoke about that. what would a ground operation have looked like from the idf's perspective. >> a lot of forces. maybe even tens of thousands going deeply into the rockets area where the storage is, looking for those tunnels exactly. because we have bombed something like 140 tunnels in this current operation out of 400. so going deeply into those
places, those civilian areas, where the -- the weaponry and the ammunition is really hidden there. there this is something you can do only with ground forces. >> do you have any idea how many of these more sophisticated rockets that hamas islamic jihad have got ahold of, how many they still have left? >> a small number to our estimation. >> dozens or -- >> yeah. even less than dozens. keep in mind that iran will try to smuggle in more rockets of this kind since we have damaged this arsenal. >> so you have no doubt that even under the cease-fire, that hamas and other groups will try to get more rockets brought in? >> i hope it won't happen. i hope hamas will respect the cease-fire. but it is an option. it happened in the past many times. but we have to be alert for this kind of option. >> avital, i appreciate you being with us tonight. thank you very much. it's late and been a long day. thank you very much. we have a lot more ahead. the political leader of hamas says his group was not behind today's bus bombing in tel-aviv.
that was the scene in gaza city earlier today before the cease-fire was announced. also today a bus bombing in tel-aviv wounded more than 20 people. at least two bombs planted on the bus. only one of those bombs actually detonated. the attack happened near the defense ministry headquarters in tel-aviv. christiane amanpour had an exclusive interview with the hamas leader in cairo and asked him about that specific attack. >> no, no. i'm asking you. did hamas claim responsibility? did hamas do that?
>> translator: not hamas. not other people from -- not hamas. no one can announce except those who committed. not me. the lesson is what matters. what led to this? who created the circumstances that led to this operations. it is netanyahu with his crimes in killing the kids of gaza and the continuation of aggression. ramifications everywhere. this could lead to any kind of reaction as retaliation for what happened in gaza. >> our reporters in gaza city said that when that -- the bombing was announced from loud speakers in mosques, there was some celebratory gunfire heard throughout the city in gaza city. i spoke with christiane amanpour about her interview with the hamas leader. christiane, you repeatedly pressed the head of hamas about whether or not they would ever
recognize israel. he gave a lot of talking points. you really pressed him on it. this is finally what he had to say. let's listen. >> you say that you would accept a two-state solution, but that you will not recognize israel's right to exist. >> translator: i accept a state of the 1967. how can i accept israel? they have occupied my land. i need recognition, not tis rhe israelis. this is a reverse question. >> what do you make of what he said, christiane? >> well, i kept pushing him. i kept saying you say this is a reverse question, but it is the question. recognition of israel. after several times, he said, look. when there is a peace agreement, then the palestinians can decide themselves. that was his final point on that. which i thought was really interesting. it was interesting to hear the head of hamas say that. and he has become quite the figure at the moment. you know, anderson, far from being isolated as the u.s. and
israel h israel had always wanted to do, now with this muslim brotherhood spring, really people have been beating down the door throughout this war to go in and stand shoulder to shoulder with hamas. so they've come out of this with somewhat elevated stature. >> and how does that change the dynamic, you think? in particular with mahmoud abbas, the palestinian authority, which is the group that israel and the united states has been trying to deal with and, as you said, trying to politically isolate hamas by not recognizing them? >> well, i think this must be a nightmare for the palestinian authority and mahmoud abbas. because all the attention has been on hamas in gaza and meshaal has been here with a seat at the table obviously talking through the egyptians to the u.s. and to israel. nonetheless, a seat at the table. i think what's really interesting is if, indeed, the parameters of this cease-fire
include a lifting of the blockade of gaza and easing of restrictions, trade and commerce, travel restrictions, and by -- for the israelis if it results in a lack of rockets coming into israel, no more rockets being fired into israel, and no more resupply of weapons to gaza, then, perhaps, there's something to build on. but the fact of the matter is that it looks like hamas is a force to be reckoned with even after this eight days or more of war. >> and negotiations, if the cease-fire holds for the next 24 hours, negotiations are to begin again for these next steps? >> yes. obviously, this is sort of a cease-fire. but there are many more things to be built on it. and the interesting thing again here, which didn't happen before, is that egypt, the leading player in getting this cease-fire, is a guarantor of the cease-fire. that was something that israel
wanted and hamas wanted as well. but israel and israeli officials told me in jerusalem they didn't want to go into another nebulas cease-fire. that, i think, is a bit of a change as well. >> christiane amanpour, appreciate talking to you tonight. thank you. prime minister netanyahu warned there could be additional military action if the cease-fire does not lead to long-term security. u.n. secretary general ban ki-moon says a broader cease-fire, long-term solutions are necessary to address the underlying causes of conflict. joining me now live is michael orr, israeli ambassador to the united states. we've heard from a lot of israelis tonight, particularly in the border regions along the gaza border who are very concerned and very doubtful about hamas's ability long term to maintain the cease-fire, to live up to the agreement and to make progress on these
agreements. how can you guarantee that hamas will simply not use this and other groups like islamic jihad as an opportunity to rearm, to restock their supplies of some of these sophisticated weapons that we've seen them having? >> well, first of all, it's good to be back with you, anderson, as always. you can understand some israelis who are -- are incredulous, a little skeptical about the cease-fire, they've been living under weekly if not daily rocket attacks from hamas since israel pulled out of gaza in 2005. yes, they have seen various cease-fires and seen those cease-fires being violated again and again by hamas. prime minister netanyahu took a very courageous decision. president obama asked him to take a risk on the cease-fire and prime minister netanyahu out of respect for the president, out of appreciation for everything america has done for israel during this conflict particularly in supporting the iron dome anti-missile defense system, prime minister netanyahu agreed to that cease-fire. now, there are no guarantees.
israel will always reserve the right to defend itself should hamas start shooting at us again. but we have no desire for conflict with the palestinians of gaza. we want to live in peace with our neighbors amongst ourselves. and if hamas does not fire at us hamas has nothing to worry about from the state of israel. >> i mean, but do you see now egypt playing a greater role in trying to stop the flow of weapons from, you know, in these tunnels which is where a lot of the rockets are coming from through sinai, through sudan, ultimately through sinai and through the tunnels? >> we greatly appreciate egyptians efforts. they made a positive contribution in the cease-fire. they have a role also in blocking the smuggle either through sudan. both pass through egyptian territory before arriving in
gaza. >> according to the terms of the cease-fire the underlying agreements of gaza, in particular border restrictions, presenting the movement of people and goods through gaza will be addressed after 24 hours of the cease-fire being in effect. just to be clear, if we see no sign of aggression from within gaza for 24 hours, these issues will be dealt with immediately thereafter? or -- >> they'll certainly be discussed. they'll certainly be discussed. our border crossings have been open to gaza for virtually every type of material. there's no food shortage, no medical shortage. except for certain materials which we call duel use like aluminum tubing that could also be used to make missiles. that type of material was passed on to nongovernment organizations or to u.n. organizations that we could trust. there's a big question about the border between gaza and egypt. the agreement with that will be opened as well. >> according to a senior obama administration official, it was the president's -- president obama's two phone calls today that, quote, closed the deal.
is that accurate according to your understanding of how things played out? and what did the u.s. offer to various parties in order to maybe sweeten the deal? >> well, president obama played an outstanding leadership role in helping to achieve the cease-fire. also secretary of state clinton who shuttled without stop between jerusalem and cairo and was also instrumental in achieving the agreement. the sweetener was support for israel. support for israel diplomatmatically. standing beside us. upholding our right to defend ourselves in the face of hamas terror. that was very important for us. also it's important for that iron dome missile system which you saw working, anderson, and working so outstandingly, taking down about 85% to 90% of all the incoming rockets and denying hamas the opportunity to -- or the ability to strike at our 5.5 million israelis who were under rocket fire. >> we talked about this, ambassador, a few hours ago. there have now been apparently
five rockets launched. a number of them intercepted. but three of them landed in southern israel. how do you see that? how seriously do you take that in terms of a violation of the cease-fire thus far? >> we assumed it would take a while for the cease-fire to take hold. i understand now it has taken hold. there hasn't been fire for a while. of course, we are not firing. there is a cease-fire, anderson. >> all right. ambassador oren, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. >> thank you, anderson. as the ambassador said, right now the rockets are silent. but there is death and destruction on both sides. there has been. can the cease-fire hold and a sincere effort at peace begin? that's the question, of course. i'm going to speak with former senator george mitchell, president obama's special envoy to the mideast. he's going to talk what it's actually like inside those negotiating rooms in this, the most difficult of all solutions to try to come up with. we'll be right back.
so this is an assortment of rockets that have fallen over the ashkelon area. it's not all of them, it's only some of them. there's more laying around here. but there's various types of rockets that you can find here. for instance, this one is apparently a grab rocket. you can tell by the fins that pop out when the rocket gets launched. whereas this one here is one of those homemade kassam rockets made in a workshop in gaza. you can tell because the fins are welded on in a rudimentary way. >> that was cnn's fred pleitgen. he and his crew were forced to
take cover a number of times. one american diplomat who understand the difficulty what it took to negotiate the cease-fire and what it's going to take to maintain it, former senator george mitchell. he was president obama's special envoy to the middle east from 2009 to 2011. mitchell held the post of senate majority leader, schooled in the art of negotiating. and in 1990s, he served as chair of peace negotiations in northern ireland that led to the successful good friday peace agreement. i spoke to him earlier about today's developments in the middle east and the difficulties that definitely lie ahead. senator mitchell, how optimistic are you that this cease-fire can hold and what would the next steps be, assuming it does hold? >> well, it's a big step forward because the violence has ended. that's critically important. the longer it goes on with more fighting and dying, the harder it is to solve any problem. on the other hand, past experience tells us it will be difficult to have a really enforceable truce that takes hold over a long period of time. they've been through this before several times. but i think there may be a recognition here that both
sides' interests can be served by stopping this kind of violence and getting down to serious discussion on the underlying issues that involve both. >> in terms of a larger peace agreement, a larger negotiation, how complicated does it become because of the divisions within the palestinian groups, between fatah, the palestinian authority in control of the west bank, hamas in control of gaza, and also involvement of other groups, factions, islamic jihad? >> very complicated. by far and away the most complicated situation i've ever been involved in. and i think it goes far beyond what you described. it makes it very difficult. in fact, both societies are divided. israel's got an election coming up in two months. we don't know for sure what the outcome of that is going to be. and the arab spring has created a new dynamic in the region. not before experience, which hopefully can be harnessed for the benefit of moving forward in the peace process, but which also could provide some
obstacles. so it's the most complicated situation imaginable, anderson. but i think even though we haven't been able to do it in the past, we have to keep trying because it's so important to the people there, to the region, and to the interests of the united states. >> egypt's role is beyond just as a guarantor and a negotiating partner. if -- if israel's confidence in their own security is to be assured, the flow of weapons into gaza has to stop. and egypt would play a critical role in that because it seems like a large number of these rockets, the more sophisticated rockets used in the last year, just in the last couple of days, are being smuggled in these tunnels through egypt. >> that's right. that's not new, anderson. the nearly three years that i was there, that was a constant subject of discussion, controversy. it's not easy for egypt. remember, this is a vast territory. much of it desert. not very well policed.
not very well governed. a lot of competing local interests. interests contrary to those of the national government in some cases here. so egypt is undertaking a major role here in how they're able to succeed in that will go a long way toward deciding how much the whole process moving forward. they're to be commended for what they've done so far. >> this may be a dumb question, a naive question. but when you're in these negotiating rooms, is there -- is there yelling? are there arguments? or is it very kind of calm and rational? >> well, in my case, almost all of the discussions were with one side at a time. they wouldn't talk to each other. so while there was a little -- a few occasions of raised voices, the two did not directly come together. when we tdid have the brief meetings between prime minister netanyahu and president abbas,
they were tense and direct and straightforward. i wouldn't say yelling. but they made their points very emphatically, both sides. it'll be some time, i think, before you're going to get an israeli representative in the same room with a representative from hamas. tough enough to get them in the same room with a palestinian authority which, as i said, is committed to nonviolence and negotiations. >> i'm curious. sometimes as a reporter when you're interviewing people from various factions, you know, they kind of go into their talking points and use a lot of rhetoric. is it that way when it's -- when it's you one on one with them? do you have to kind of sit through a lot of -- a lot of rhetoric? or does everyone cut to the chase when it's just one on one, there's no cameras around. >> you've got to sit through a lot of rhetoric. if you don't have patience and perseverance and the ability to listen for a long time, don't get in the business of reconciling conflicts.
in northern ireland, a completely different situation, i spent five years there. sat through thousands of repetitious hours. there was yelling. insults. people storming out of the room, storming back. demanding the other side be thrown out. there was quite a bit of that. and you have to have a huge reservoir of patience to be able to sit through it, listen to it all, let everybody have their say. but in the end, what you have to identify is their self-interest. peace with not be imposed from the outside unless you do it by overwhelming force of arms which is obviously not the case here. the parties have to want peace themselves. they can't rely upon the united states or any outside power to bring them to peace if they're not interested themselves. we've now had since the creation of israel 12 israeli prime ministers, 10 american presidents, 19 american secretaries of state, countless envoys like myself. and it didn't get done. but it's all important and we have to keep trying. >> senator mitchell, i really
appreciate your time. fascinating to listen to you. thank you. >> thanks, anderson. it's a much different scene in gaza city than what we saw this morning. we're going to check in with ben wedeman in gaza city to find out what is going on right now, whether surveillance drones are still flying. i'm sure they are. talk to him next. ñç@rño
happy not only for the cease-fire as many saw as a victory for hamas, palestinians, some just happy to get out of the house after days of bombardment and fear. israeli defense forces say five rockets were fired into gaza within three hours of the cease-fire announcement. the days and weeks ahead will be crucial. the agreement calls for negotiations on issues including freedom of movement in and out of gaza. joining me now is fareed za k zakaria, princeton university's emory slaughter, and back with us, senior international correspondent ben wedeman in gaza city. ben, we checked in with you at the top of the program. any change in the situation in gaza city? i imagine things are pretty quiet. there were celebrations earlier. those surveillance drones, i assume, are still flying? >> it's quiet now. i can hear the chickens downstairs. the drones overhead. the sound of the drones was drowned out for those few hours when people were out celebrating. but now they're back. and it really is a reminder that
gaza is very much under the control of the israelis. they control the sky. they patrol with boats off the coast. and with the warplanes as well. so much has changed in the last eight days, but much hasn't. anderson? >> ben, in your opinion, what does this mean for the power of hamas and the power of the palestinian authority in mahmoud abbas? is this some sort of acknowledgment, "a," that the attempt by the u.s. and israel to politically isolate hamas has failed and that the future lies with hamas as opposed to with mahmoud abbas? >> well, i don't think the united states is about to switch sides and start backing hamas. but it does, indeed, represent failure of the policy that was put into effect after the january 2006 elections here in the palestinian territories
where the united states, with israel, with the european union, began to impose some fairly stringent restrictions on hamas in an attempt to isolate it. and in june 2007, it's widely believed the united states sort of passively supported an attempted coup d'etat by fatah to try to oust hamas from power and they failed. hamas has survived two israeli -- wars with israel, so to speak. it's survived all that isolation, all of those sanctions. now we've seen within the last eight days senior arab foreign ministers, we've seen the turkish foreign minister come. hamas is suddenly out of its isolation. it's now very much in the mainstream, largely because of the changes in the arab world with the so-called arab spring.
anderson? >> fareed zakaria, is there any -- we've seen plenty of cease-fires before like this one. is there any reason to believe this one will be different? that it'll actually lead to something more long term? >> i think it's unlikely to lead to something long term unless israel wants it to. but it's very unlikely that the cease-fire will break down completely and that the conflict will spread, which is one of the things a lot of people have said. look, the reality, anderson, to put this in context is israel is now the military super power of the region. ben has wonderfully documented for us the incredible asymmetry of power. so when the egyptians think about getting involved, or the turks think about getting involved, they realize they're up against an israeli military which is just far superior to anything they have and certainly far superior to anything even ten years ago. the israelis now spend more money on their defense budget than all their neighbors combined. so they're in a whole different league partly because of technology, partly because the israeli economy is doing so
well. that the reality is, that is a very strong deterrent to the egyptians or to the turks to get involved. >> fareed, in your opinion, what does this mean about iran, about the power of iran in the region or involvement of iran in the region? >> i think it shows the limits. iranians are bogged down with their ally, syria. they're trying to do something about that. i doubt very much they were very involved in this in the first place. it shows you they don't have much of a reach. this has always been the claim that through hezbollah and hamas they had some special asymmetrical power. i think this reveals israel really dominates the region. if the israelis want to make peace with -- if the palestin n palestinians want peace they're going to have to make it on israeli terms right now. >> emory, do you agree with that? >> well, in part. i mean, one thing i would note,
one of the reasons israel has such military predom innocence is also because of the tremendous support the obama administration has given israel on defense matters. you heard ambassador oren refer several times to u.s. assistance on iron dome and the obama administration has pointed out multiple times that it has really given israel more defense cooperation than any other administration. so that is part of the israel's predominan predominance. i agree with fareed. where i would disagree a little, i do think hamas has shown that notwithstanding two israeli incursion and sanctions, it's not only survived, but it's increased its ability to inflict pain on israel. i mean, this incursion started because of the constant firing of the rockets. and over the course of the last week, we've seen rockets landing in tel-aviv and even aimed at jerusalem. so i totally agree that iran can't level the military playing
field. not even close. but i do think hamas has more power and now, of course, more political recognition than we might have expected. >> the interesting question, anderson, would be -- >> go ahead, fareed. >> the interesting question would be whether hamas gains from this politically. because really what they've been able to do is survive. they've been able to survive. they have these pinprick attacks, these unguided missiles have been very ineffective. yes, they cause the israelis to go through these procedures where they have to go into shelters. they really don't kill people. they certainly don't disrupt israeli in a meaningful sense. the question is are they more popular on the street? there's a lot of evidence that both fatah and hamas are actually very unpopular with the palestinian people. they're sort of stuck with them. partly because, you know, the israeli embargo and blockade and the pressure, they don't want to oust hamas because that would be, in a sense, doing what the israelis want. but hamas is not very popular.
>> ben wedeman, you've been saying that also now for several nights. that they're not all that popular. >> no, they're not popular. fareed is right to point out that fatah itself is not popular. i think many palestinians are weary of being caught between these two factions. neither of which has really achieved what they want, which is some sort of final solution and the ability to live in a state of their own in peace. both have sort of -- fatah was a major sort of engine behind the second intafada which didn't leave the palestinians anything in the way of positive results. hamas has sort of gotten gaza into endless trouble with israel. i think people here are, indeed, looking for some sort of third alternative that can sort of negotiate with israel, that can stay out of, sort of, the swamp of corruption that fatah fell
into. and that many people here in gaza say hamas has gotten into with all the money it's making off of the tunnels and whatnot. so, yes, i think there is an exhaustion with both parties. but we've yet to see a third force to emerge here as an alternative. anderson? >> ben wedeman, fareed zakaria, anne-marie slaughter, thank you very much. susan rice speaking out for the first time about the situation in benghazi. we'll be right back. ong with it, more identity theft.ong with it, by the time this holiday season is over, an estimated 1.2 million identities may be stolen. every time you pull out your wallet, shop online or hit the road, you give thieves a chance to ruin your holiday. by the time you're done watching this, as many as 40 more identities may be stolen. you can't be on the lookout
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welcome back. we're in jerusalem tonight. we're following other stories. susan hendricks is here. >> tonight u.s. ambassador susan rice is responding to republicans criticizing her for initially blaming the deadly ben fwazy consulate attack on protesters angry over anti-muslim video. rice says she was relaying information provided by the intelligence community and made clear the accounts were preliminary. jesse jackson jr. resigning his seat in congress today, blaming deteriorating health. chicago voters just elected jackson to his tenth term despite being under investigation by the fbi and the house ethics committee. stores are expecting smaller crowds this black friday. the national retail federation is predicting 147 million people will go bargain hunting this weekend. that is down from 220 million
last year. the report mainly blaming the slow economy and concerns over the fiscal cliff. you can call cobbler the luckiest turkey in america after receiving an official pardon from president obama. unlike millions of other turkeys heading for the oven, cobbler is retiring to george washington's former home at mt. vernon. anderson, back to you. >> susan, thanks very much. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] itchy dry scalp?